Son. Certainly, father, this is he.

  Lys. I am delighted to hear, Socrates, that you maintain the name of
your father, who was a most excellent man; and I further rejoice at
the prospect of our family ties being renewed.

  La. Indeed, Lysimachus, you ought not to give him up; for I can
assure you that I have seen him maintaining, not only his father's,
but also his country's name. He was my companion in the retreat from
Delium, and I can tell you that if others had only been like him,
the honour of our country would have been upheld, and the great defeat
would never have occurred.

  Lys. That is very high praise which is accorded to you, Socrates, by
faithful witnesses and for actions like those which they praise. Let
me tell you the pleasure which I feel in hearing of your fame; and I
hope that you will regard me as one of your warmest friends. You ought
to have visited us long ago, and made yourself at home with us; but
now, from this day forward, as we have at last found one another
out, do as I say-come and make acquaintance with me, and with these
young men, that I may continue your friend, as I was your father's.
I shall expect you to do so, and shall venture at some future time
to remind you of your duty. But what say you of the matter of which we
were beginning to speak-the art of fighting in armour? Is that a
practice in which the lads may be advantageously instructed?

  Soc. I will endeavour to advise you, Lysimachus, as far as I can
in this matter, and also in every way will comply with your wishes;
but as I am younger and not so experienced, I think that I ought
certainly to hear first what my elders have to say, and to learn of
them, and if I have anything to add, then I may venture to give my
opinion to them as well as to you. Suppose, Nicias, that one or
other of you begin.

  Nic. I have no objection, Socrates; and my opinion is that the
acquirement of this art is in many ways useful to young men. It is
an advantage to them that among the favourite amusements of their
leisure hours they should have one which tends to improve and not to
injure their bodily health. No gymnastics could be better or harder
exercise; and this, and the art of riding, are of all arts most
befitting to a freeman; for they only who are thus trained in the
use of arms are the athletes of our military profession, trained in
that on which the conflict turns. Moreover in actual battle, when
you have to fight in a line with a number of others, such an
acquirement will be of some use, and will be of the greatest
whenever the ranks are broken and you have to fight singly, either
in pursuit, when you are attacking some one who is defending
himself, or in flight, when you have to defend yourself against an
assailant. Certainly he who possessed the art could not meet with
any harm at the hands of a single person, or perhaps of several; and
in any case he would have a great advantage. Further, this sort of
skill inclines a man to the love of other noble lessons; for every man
who has learned how to fight in armour will desire to learn the proper
arrangement of an army, which is the sequel of the lesson: and when he
has learned this, and his ambition is once fired, he will go on to
learn the complete art of the general. There is no difficulty in
seeing that the knowledge and practice of other military arts will
be honourable and valuable to a man; and this lesson may be the
beginning of them. Let me add a further advantage, which is by no
means a slight one,-that this science will make any man a great deal
more valiant and self-possessed in the field. And I will not disdain
to mention, what by some may he thought to be a small matter;-he
will make a better appearance at the right time; that is to say, at
the time when his appearance will strike terror into his enemies. My
opinion then, Lysimachus, is, as I say, that the youths should be
instructed in this art, and for the reasons which I have given. But
Laches may take a different view; and I shall be very glad to hear
what he has to say.

  La. I should not like to maintain, Nicias, that any kind of
knowledge is not to be learned; for all knowledge appears to be a
good: and if, as Nicias and as the teachers of the art affirm, this
use of arms is really a species of knowledge, then it ought to be
learned; but if not, and if those who profess to teach it are
deceivers only; or if it be knowledge, but not of a valuable sort,
then what is the use of learning it? I say this, because I think
that if it had been really valuable, the Lacedaemonians, whose whole
life is passed in finding out and practising the arts which give
them an advantage over other nations in war, would have discovered
this one. And even if they had not, still these professors of the
art would certainly not have failed to discover that of all the
Hellenes the Lacedaemonians have the greatest interest in such
matters, and that a master of the art who was honoured among them
would be sure to make his fortune among other nations, just as a
tragic poet would who is honoured among ourselves; which is the reason
why he who fancies that he can write a tragedy does not go about
itinerating in the neighbouring states, but rushes straight, and
exhibits at Athens; and this is natural. Whereas I perceive that these
fighters in armour regard Lacedaemon as a sacred inviolable territory,
which they do not touch with the point of their foot; but they make
a circuit of the neighbouring states, and would rather exhibit to
any others than to the Spartans; and particularly to those who would
themselves acknowledge that they are by no means first-rate in the
arts of war. Further, Lysimachus, I have encountered a good many of
these gentlemen in actual service, and have taken their measure, which
I can give you at once; for none of these masters of fence have ever
been distinguished in war,-there has been a sort of fatality about
them; while in all other arts the men of note have been always those
who have practised the art, they appear to be a most unfortunate